Vallalar Messages

07-11-2003, 05:15 AM

Namaste,
I would like to know whether Vallalar's teaching is accepted
as Advaitic or not. His history at www.vallalar.org says that he
merged with the absolute/light/god. The above website has his work
ThiruArutpa, some english articles and lots of songs (in Tamil) that
can be downloaded freely.

Please throw some light on this, if you are familiar with his
teachings.

Thanks,
perolyn

07-11-2003, 07:23 PM

Namaste Sri Perolyn
My opinion :
Vallalar's work and teachings are on the lines of Saiva Siddhantham.
It is called Sanmarga Neri. Sanmargam has also been mentioned as one
of the aspects of saivam in Tirumular's Tirumanthiram, one of the
primary Saivite text.
(Sanmargam means Sath + Margam. Sath = Truth; Margam = way.)

I am quoting a couple of his tamil text with my translation in
English since I have only the tamil version of his works.

"Neeye Anubhavam Neeye Arivu
Neeye Karanam Neeye Kariyam
Karana Kariyangal Kadandhu
Puranap Porulai Vilanguvadhum Nee"

You are the experience. You are the intelligence. You are the cause.
You are the action. Beyond the cause and the actions, existing as
the complete is also you.

"Ennai Unakullum Unnai Enakullum Parka Mudindhadhu Pakkuvam...."

To see I in you and you in me is wisdom.

These two lines are pretty straightforward. So you might have guessed
by now if its advaitic or not. There might of course be much more
clearer lines from his work. I just picked his works in a condensed
book which I have when I saw your mail to look for appropriate
quotes from his work.

Interesting that you have said :
>
> Please throw some light on this, if you are familiar with
his
> teachings

Vallalar's mantra is 'Arutperunjothi Thaniperunkarunai' = The divine
supreme light; The unique supreme Grace. His followers worship God
as Light!

Some people say that Saiva Siddhantham is just Advaitam. I do not
think it is. The basics of saivism and its differences from the
other philosophies has been very well discussed in this web page :
http://www.heb.gov.sg/documents/ssihp.pdf

Regards
Guruprasad

> I would like to know whether Vallalar's teaching is
accepted
> as Advaitic or not. His history at www.vallalar.org says that he
> merged with the absolute/light/god. The above website has his work

07-11-2003, 07:43 PM

Dear Perolyn:

There is a Sri Vallalar temple on the Girivalum road
that goes around Arunachala in Tiruvannamalai.

The president of the temple runs a guest house in
Tiruvannamalai called Sesha Bhavan.

I got to know the president of the temple when I was staying at his
guest house and from time to time I would visit the temple.

There is a large statue of Vallalar outside.
It is worth a visit if you ever happen to go to Tiruvannamalai.

They have nine siva-lingams there. I sponsored the sun lingam.
If you go there you can see what the L.
in Michael L. stands for. LOL.

I have not visited the web site you mentioned.
I have no interest in the Teachings of Sri Vallalar.

The story of Vallalar's bodily death is that he went into a room
and locked the door. Many witnesses saw him go into the room.
When later people went into the room, no body was there.
The disappearance of the body of Sri Vallalar is famous.

I am not going to express an opinion on if Sri Vallalar's teaching
is non-dual or not. Because to express such an opinion would be an
encouragement to an intellectual instead of an experiential approach
to ending the illusion, i.e. endless discussions occuring on the
surface of the ocean, instead of diving to the depths, thus ending
the intellect and the person who does the discussing.

Non-dual teachings are more rare than a camel with wings.

Teachings claiming to be non-dual are as common as elephants with
trunks.

Take care,

with Love,

in: Awareness watching Awareness,

Michael L.

--- In advaitin (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, "perolyn" wrote:
> Namaste,
> I would like to know whether Vallalar's teaching is accepted
> as Advaitic or not. His history at www.vallalar.org says that he
> merged with the absolute/light/god. The above website has his work
> ThiruArutpa, some english articles and lots of songs (in Tamil)
that
> can be downloaded freely.
>
> Please throw some light on this, if you are familiar with
his
> teachings.
>
> Thanks,
> perolyn

07-13-2003, 04:23 PM

Namaste,

Actually the Saiva Siddhantins also call their Siddhanta "Advaita
Siddhanta". Only that they interpret the word Advaita differently from
Advaita Vedanta. There are many differences between Saiva Siddhanta and
Advaita Vedanta. Saiva Siddhantins consider Advaita Vedanta as one of the
'outer schools' for not accepting the Agamas as a pramana. Saiva
Siddhantins accept both the Agamas and the Vedas as pramanas.

best regards,
K Kathirasan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: v_vedanti [SMTP:v_vedanti@...]
> Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 2:24 PM
> To: advaitin (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com
> Subject: [advaitin] Re: Regarding Vallalar's Teaching
>
> Namaste Sri Perolyn
> My opinion :
> Vallalar's work and teachings are on the lines of Saiva Siddhantham.
> It is called Sanmarga Neri. Sanmargam has also been mentioned as one
> of the aspects of saivam in Tirumular's Tirumanthiram, one of the
> primary Saivite text.
> (Sanmargam means Sath + Margam. Sath = Truth; Margam = way.)
>
> I am quoting a couple of his tamil text with my translation in
> English since I have only the tamil version of his works.
>
> "Neeye Anubhavam Neeye Arivu
> Neeye Karanam Neeye Kariyam
> Karana Kariyangal Kadandhu
> Puranap Porulai Vilanguvadhum Nee"
>
> You are the experience. You are the intelligence. You are the cause.
> You are the action. Beyond the cause and the actions, existing as
> the complete is also you.
>
> "Ennai Unakullum Unnai Enakullum Parka Mudindhadhu Pakkuvam...."
>
> To see I in you and you in me is wisdom.
>
> These two lines are pretty straightforward. So you might have guessed
> by now if its advaitic or not. There might of course be much more
> clearer lines from his work. I just picked his works in a condensed
> book which I have when I saw your mail to look for appropriate
> quotes from his work.
>
> Interesting that you have said :
> >
> > Please throw some light on this, if you are familiar with
> his
> > teachings
>
> Vallalar's mantra is 'Arutperunjothi Thaniperunkarunai' = The divine
> supreme light; The unique supreme Grace. His followers worship God
> as Light!
>
> Some people say that Saiva Siddhantham is just Advaitam. I do not
> think it is. The basics of saivism and its differences from the
> other philosophies has been very well discussed in this web page :
> http://www.heb.gov.sg/documents/ssihp.pdf
>
> Regards
> Guruprasad
>
> > I would like to know whether Vallalar's teaching is
> accepted
> > as Advaitic or not. His history at www.vallalar.org says that he
> > merged with the absolute/light/god. The above website has his work
>
>
>
>
> Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of
> Atman and Brahman.
> Advaitin List Archives available at:
> http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/
> To Post a message send an email to : advaitin (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com
> Messages Archived at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/advaitin/messages
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

07-13-2003, 05:59 PM

Namste kathirasanji,

" ----- Original Message -----
From: K Kathirasan NCS
There are many differences between Saiva Siddhanta and
Advaita Vedanta. Saiva Siddhantins consider Advaita Vedanta as one of the
'outer schools' for not accepting the Agamas as a pramana. Saiva
Siddhantins accept both the Agamas and the Vedas as pramanas. "

Agama means tradition. Veda-s is part of tradition, isnt it? Then how come the
distinction?
Please clear my doubt.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

07-13-2003, 06:23 PM

Namaste Ranjeevji,

Here the Agamas are the Shaiva Agamas which are 28 in number. They are also
given the status of Shruti. Hence the distinction.

best regards,
K Kathirasan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ranjeet Sankar [SMTP:thefinalsearch@...]
> Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 1:00 PM
> To: advaitin (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com
> Subject: Re: [advaitin] Re: Regarding Vallalar's Teaching
>
> Namste kathirasanji,
>
> " ----- Original Message -----
> From: K Kathirasan NCS
> There are many differences between Saiva Siddhanta and
> Advaita Vedanta. Saiva Siddhantins consider Advaita Vedanta as one of
> the
> 'outer schools' for not accepting the Agamas as a pramana. Saiva
> Siddhantins accept both the Agamas and the Vedas as pramanas. "
>
> Agama means tradition. Veda-s is part of tradition, isnt it? Then how
> come the distinction?
> Please clear my doubt.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of
> Atman and Brahman.
> Advaitin List Archives available at:
> http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/
> To Post a message send an email to : advaitin (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com
> Messages Archived at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/advaitin/messages
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

07-14-2003, 01:10 AM

Namaste:

These comments are in addition to Sri Kathirasan's excellent remarks
on this topic.

The Saiva Siddhantam was orginated in Tamil Nadu with the emergence
of 63 Nayanmars (Shiva worshipping sages). The Bhakti movement (800
AD to 1700 AD) was quite extensive and consists of Shiva, Vishnu and
other Ishtadevatas. The Shiva worship using the 28 agamas and Vishnu
worship with the adoptation of the (Nalayira DivyaPrabhandams -
fourthousands verses praising the glories of Narayana) are quite
significant. The agamas and Divyaprabhandams are considered as
the 'Tamil Vedas' by the Tamil Bhaktas. The greatest of the devotees
of Shiva are called the Naynamars and they are 63 in number and they
are the authors to the agamas. The famous ones are Taymanavar,
Manickavasagar, Jnanasambandhar, etc. The great devotees of Vishnu
are known as the Alwars who are the authors of the prabhandams.
Andal, Nammalvar, Periyalwar, Kulasekaraalwar, etc are the most
famous among the Alwars.

The agamas and prabhandams are respectively verses in praise of Shiva
and Vishnu respectively. But these verses come from the hearts of the
true devotees who totally surrendered their ego. They are great Tamil
literary works greatly cherished by the Tamil scholars. Most of them
readily available in the Internet for interested readers. They are
all poems written in simple Tamil but with a great depth of devotion
and philosophy.

ThAyumAnavar postulated the hypothesis of "advaitha SitthAn^tham"
which he considered as was more universal and aimed at bridging the
gap between VEdhAn^tham and SitthAn^tham. Sage Tayumanavar was a
respected scholar in both Sanskrit and Tamil, Tayumanavar was
minister to a king in Trichinopoly. When he became god-minded, he
went over to Rameswaram, and then from place to place, preaching
Saiva Siddhanta philosophy and Siva worship. His songs are full of
the divine bliss which he enjoyed in abundance. The songs, on the
theme of the Atma craving for the union with the Paramatma, are
famous for their simplicity. He is also known for his unceasing
emphasis on the unity of all paths to God and of all religions, and
in particular, on the unity of Vedanta and Saiva Siddhanta.

I strongly recommend the following site to those who want read more
on Tayumanavar's works. An example poem is stated below as an example
to illustrate the unity of Bhakti and Jnana!

Site with Hymns of Thayumanavar:
http://www.mountainman.com.au/thayumanavar/

The Site starts with an Introduction with a verse from KathaUpanishads
=================================================
The Self is not realized through instruction,
nor by intellectual power,
nor by much hearing
.. It can be reached only
by the one whom the Self chooses.
To him the Self reveals its form.
He who has not renounced evil ways,
who is not at peace,
who cannot concentrate,
whose mind is not composed
cannot reach the Self,
even by right knowledge.
Krishna Yajur Veda,
Katha Upanishad 1.2.24-25
===============================

Translation of Taynamanvar's Tamil poem in English: (I have read many
of Tayumanavar's works in Tamil and this translation taken from the
quoted site is pretty good)

What is it, which is
Uncircumscribed Effulgence,
Perfect Bliss,
Divine-Love Filled --

What is it, which willed
To contain the countless universes
In boundless space
And there flourishes as Life of life, -

What is it, which stood
Transcending thought and word,

What is it, which remained
As the ever contentious object
Of countless faiths claiming,
''This, my God,'' ''This, our God''--

What is it, which exists as
Omnipresent,
Omnipotent
Love-filled
and Eternal -

What is it, which knows
No limits of
Night and day -

That indeed is what is agreeable to thought,
That indeed is what fills all space in silentness.

That indeed is what we in meekness worship.

--- In advaitin (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, K Kathirasan NCS
wrote:
> Namaste Ranjeevji,
>
> Here the Agamas are the Shaiva Agamas which are 28 in number. They
are also
> given the status of Shruti. Hence the distinction.
>
> best regards,
> K Kathirasan

07-14-2003, 01:24 AM

(Nalayira DivyaPrabhandams - fourthousands verses praising the glories of
Narayana)

praNAm prabhuji
Hare Krishna

Can I have the URL for the above prabhuji as one of my friends telling me
about divya prabhandham y'day.

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
bhaskar

07-14-2003, 02:08 AM

Namaste:

URL: http://www.divyaprabandam.com/

regards,

Ram Chandran

--- In advaitin (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, bhaskar.yr@i... wrote:
>
> (Nalayira DivyaPrabhandams - fourthousands verses praising the
glories of
> Narayana)
>
> praNAm prabhuji
> Hare Krishna
>
> Can I have the URL for the above prabhuji as one of my friends
telling me
> about divya prabhandham y'day.
>
> Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
> bhaskar

07-14-2003, 02:56 AM

Namaste Kathirasan ji,

Forgive my Ignorance. What are Agamas? Many thanks and regards,

Venkat - M

K Kathirasan NCS wrote:
Namaste,

......... Saiva Siddhantins consider Advaita Vedanta as one of the
'outer schools' for not accepting the Agamas as a pramana. Saiva
Siddhantins accept both the Agamas and the Vedas as pramanas.

best regards,
K Kathirasan

---------------------------------
Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

07-14-2003, 05:19 AM

Namaste:

A more complete discussion on Shiva Siddhantam is available at the
site with the URL
http://siddhanta.shaivam.org/introduc.html

The site describes everything that one needs to know about the
Siddhantham and details about the associated scriptures - Agamas.

A rich collection of Tamil Literatures are available at the URL:
http://dcwww.epfl.ch/icp/ICP-2/KK/tamil4.html
Most of the Agamas and also nalayira Divyaprabhandam are available in
this site for downloading.

The list had conducted previous discussions on Shiva Siddhantham and
also the Bhakti movement few times before.
Here is one reference:
http://www.escribe.com/culture/advaitin/m9249.html

We also had few postings from Thirumari during February and March
2001. Those interested should check the archives.

regards,

Ram Chandran

--- In advaitin (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, S Venkatraman wrote:
> Namaste Kathirasan ji,
>
> Forgive my Ignorance. What are Agamas? Many thanks and regards,
>
> Venkat - M
>

07-14-2003, 05:23 AM

Namaste:

Here is an interesting article in praise of Valllar's poems:
URL:http://www.levity.com/alchemy/ramaling.html

A Single Flame's Light:Reflections on the Poetry of Ramalingar
An Introduction to the poet-saint's works. by Layne Little

regards,

Ram Chandran

07-16-2003, 02:42 PM

Namaste Vaidyanathji,

Firstly we have to understand that the Agamas have been the least translated
and studied works among the many scriptures in Sanatana Dharma. This is
partly the reason why many don't know much about the Agamic tradition. I
believe Arthur Avalon or John Woodroffe has been the only scholar who has
written many english books on the Agamas, particularly the Shakta Agamas.

To some Vedas alone are Shruti (revealed texts). To some others Shruti is
both the Vedas and Agamas. And to others, esp those who are Shaivas,
Vaishnavas & Shaktas, the Agamas are the Shruti. The Agamas are generally
classified as also vaidika (not antagonistic to the Vedas) and avaidika
(antagonistic to the Vedas). If I am not wrong, Temple rituals are more
explicit in the Upa-Agamas than the Agamas. The Agamas are in Sanskrit but
they are not recorded in the Devanagari script but in the much older Grantha
script (to know more about the scripts, pls visit:
http://www.ancientscripts.com/sa_ws.html). The Shaiva Agamas lay the
philosophical foundation for most Shaiva schools of thought. Likewise the
Vaishnava Agamas for the Vaishnavas and the Shakta Agamas for the Shaktas.
The Agamas lay the foundation for the doctrines expounded later by the
acharyas of each tradition. Apart from the Agamas, the various traditions
also give importance to the recorded utterances of Jnanis. The Siva
Siddhantins call their corpus of recorded utterances as Thirumurais (in
Tamil) and the Sri Vaishnavas have the Divya Prabantham (also in Tamil).

>From my studies, I discovered that there are 2 parallel traditions in
Sanatana Dharma. One is the Vedic and the other Agamic. Most often than not,
many scholars have ignored the Agamic traditions and portrayed Sanatana
Dharma as purely Vedic. And it is also a popular myth that the Agamic
traditions belonged to the Southern Indians. It is wrong because Kashmir
Shaivism also draws its authority from the Agamas (which are also called
Tantras).

Ramana Maharishi has also given a commentary on the Devikalottara Upa-Agama
of the Shaiva tradition.

best regards,
K Kathirasan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: vaidyanathiyer [SMTP:vaidyanathiyer@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 8:46 PM
> To: advaitin (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com
> Subject: [advaitin] Fw: [meykandar] Fwd: Re: Regarding Vallalar's
> Teaching
>
> sir,
>
> i have one doubt. i thought that agamas are a rituals or a way of
> worship of lord shiva. like in shiva temples they follow poojas
> within a set of agama. where as in vishnu temples they follow the
> rituals laid down by sri ramanujar.
> the conflict arose only when only shiva was worshiped by agamas and
> nayanmars were totally immersed in praise of shiva and forgot vishnu.
> with the advent of alwars who were vishnu devotees and the emergence
> of vishitadvaitam by ramanujar,the protection of saiva treditions
> were taken over by adeenams.inspite of adishankara who did not
> differenciate between vishnu and shiva we had the different schools
> of thought emerging in south.this might be because of tamil poets and
> saints considered vishnu differently. but we had alwars nalayira
> divya prabandams. iam unable to make out the reasons for different
> philosophies emerging.can any one throw light on this.
>
> regards
>
> cdr bvn
>

07-11-2003, 05:15 AM	#1
perolyn Posts: n/a	Regarding Vallalar's Teaching Namaste, I would like to know whether Vallalar's teaching is accepted as Advaitic or not. His history at www.vallalar.org says that he merged with the absolute/light/god. The above website has his work ThiruArutpa, some english articles and lots of songs (in Tamil) that can be downloaded freely. Please throw some light on this, if you are familiar with his teachings. Thanks, perolyn

07-11-2003, 07:23 PM	#2
v_vedanti Posts: n/a	Re: Regarding Vallalar's Teaching Namaste Sri Perolyn My opinion : Vallalar's work and teachings are on the lines of Saiva Siddhantham. It is called Sanmarga Neri. Sanmargam has also been mentioned as one of the aspects of saivam in Tirumular's Tirumanthiram, one of the primary Saivite text. (Sanmargam means Sath + Margam. Sath = Truth; Margam = way.) I am quoting a couple of his tamil text with my translation in English since I have only the tamil version of his works. "Neeye Anubhavam Neeye Arivu Neeye Karanam Neeye Kariyam Karana Kariyangal Kadandhu Puranap Porulai Vilanguvadhum Nee" You are the experience. You are the intelligence. You are the cause. You are the action. Beyond the cause and the actions, existing as the complete is also you. "Ennai Unakullum Unnai Enakullum Parka Mudindhadhu Pakkuvam...." To see I in you and you in me is wisdom. These two lines are pretty straightforward. So you might have guessed by now if its advaitic or not. There might of course be much more clearer lines from his work. I just picked his works in a condensed book which I have when I saw your mail to look for appropriate quotes from his work. Interesting that you have said : > > Please throw some light on this, if you are familiar with his > teachings Vallalar's mantra is 'Arutperunjothi Thaniperunkarunai' = The divine supreme light; The unique supreme Grace. His followers worship God as Light! Some people say that Saiva Siddhantham is just Advaitam. I do not think it is. The basics of saivism and its differences from the other philosophies has been very well discussed in this web page : http://www.heb.gov.sg/documents/ssihp.pdf Regards Guruprasad > I would like to know whether Vallalar's teaching is accepted > as Advaitic or not. His history at www.vallalar.org says that he > merged with the absolute/light/god. The above website has his work

07-11-2003, 07:43 PM	#3
Michael L. Posts: n/a	Re: Regarding Vallalar's Teaching Dear Perolyn: There is a Sri Vallalar temple on the Girivalum road that goes around Arunachala in Tiruvannamalai. The president of the temple runs a guest house in Tiruvannamalai called Sesha Bhavan. I got to know the president of the temple when I was staying at his guest house and from time to time I would visit the temple. There is a large statue of Vallalar outside. It is worth a visit if you ever happen to go to Tiruvannamalai. They have nine siva-lingams there. I sponsored the sun lingam. If you go there you can see what the L. in Michael L. stands for. LOL. I have not visited the web site you mentioned. I have no interest in the Teachings of Sri Vallalar. The story of Vallalar's bodily death is that he went into a room and locked the door. Many witnesses saw him go into the room. When later people went into the room, no body was there. The disappearance of the body of Sri Vallalar is famous. I am not going to express an opinion on if Sri Vallalar's teaching is non-dual or not. Because to express such an opinion would be an encouragement to an intellectual instead of an experiential approach to ending the illusion, i.e. endless discussions occuring on the surface of the ocean, instead of diving to the depths, thus ending the intellect and the person who does the discussing. Non-dual teachings are more rare than a camel with wings. Teachings claiming to be non-dual are as common as elephants with trunks. Take care, with Love, in: Awareness watching Awareness, Michael L. --- In advaitin (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, "perolyn" wrote: > Namaste, > I would like to know whether Vallalar's teaching is accepted > as Advaitic or not. His history at www.vallalar.org says that he > merged with the absolute/light/god. The above website has his work > ThiruArutpa, some english articles and lots of songs (in Tamil) that > can be downloaded freely. > > Please throw some light on this, if you are familiar with his > teachings. > > Thanks, > perolyn

07-13-2003, 04:23 PM	#4
K Kathirasan NCS Posts: n/a	RE: Re: Regarding Vallalar's Teaching Namaste, Actually the Saiva Siddhantins also call their Siddhanta "Advaita Siddhanta". Only that they interpret the word Advaita differently from Advaita Vedanta. There are many differences between Saiva Siddhanta and Advaita Vedanta. Saiva Siddhantins consider Advaita Vedanta as one of the 'outer schools' for not accepting the Agamas as a pramana. Saiva Siddhantins accept both the Agamas and the Vedas as pramanas. best regards, K Kathirasan > -----Original Message----- > From: v_vedanti [SMTP:v_vedanti@...] > Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 2:24 PM > To: advaitin (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com > Subject: [advaitin] Re: Regarding Vallalar's Teaching > > Namaste Sri Perolyn > My opinion : > Vallalar's work and teachings are on the lines of Saiva Siddhantham. > It is called Sanmarga Neri. Sanmargam has also been mentioned as one > of the aspects of saivam in Tirumular's Tirumanthiram, one of the > primary Saivite text. > (Sanmargam means Sath + Margam. Sath = Truth; Margam = way.) > > I am quoting a couple of his tamil text with my translation in > English since I have only the tamil version of his works. > > "Neeye Anubhavam Neeye Arivu > Neeye Karanam Neeye Kariyam > Karana Kariyangal Kadandhu > Puranap Porulai Vilanguvadhum Nee" > > You are the experience. You are the intelligence. You are the cause. > You are the action. Beyond the cause and the actions, existing as > the complete is also you. > > "Ennai Unakullum Unnai Enakullum Parka Mudindhadhu Pakkuvam...." > > To see I in you and you in me is wisdom. > > These two lines are pretty straightforward. So you might have guessed > by now if its advaitic or not. There might of course be much more > clearer lines from his work. I just picked his works in a condensed > book which I have when I saw your mail to look for appropriate > quotes from his work. > > Interesting that you have said : > > > > Please throw some light on this, if you are familiar with > his > > teachings > > Vallalar's mantra is 'Arutperunjothi Thaniperunkarunai' = The divine > supreme light; The unique supreme Grace. His followers worship God > as Light! > > Some people say that Saiva Siddhantham is just Advaitam. I do not > think it is. The basics of saivism and its differences from the > other philosophies has been very well discussed in this web page : > http://www.heb.gov.sg/documents/ssihp.pdf > > Regards > Guruprasad > > > I would like to know whether Vallalar's teaching is > accepted > > as Advaitic or not. His history at www.vallalar.org says that he > > merged with the absolute/light/god. The above website has his work > > > > > Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of > Atman and Brahman. > Advaitin List Archives available at: > http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ > To Post a message send an email to : advaitin (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com > Messages Archived at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/advaitin/messages > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >

07-13-2003, 05:59 PM	#5
Ranjeet Sankar Posts: n/a	Re: Re: Regarding Vallalar's Teaching Namste kathirasanji, " ----- Original Message ----- From: K Kathirasan NCS There are many differences between Saiva Siddhanta and Advaita Vedanta. Saiva Siddhantins consider Advaita Vedanta as one of the 'outer schools' for not accepting the Agamas as a pramana. Saiva Siddhantins accept both the Agamas and the Vedas as pramanas. " Agama means tradition. Veda-s is part of tradition, isnt it? Then how come the distinction? Please clear my doubt. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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07-13-2003, 06:23 PM	#6
K Kathirasan NCS Posts: n/a	RE: Re: Regarding Vallalar's Teaching Namaste Ranjeevji, Here the Agamas are the Shaiva Agamas which are 28 in number. They are also given the status of Shruti. Hence the distinction. best regards, K Kathirasan > -----Original Message----- > From: Ranjeet Sankar [SMTP:thefinalsearch@...] > Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 1:00 PM > To: advaitin (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com > Subject: Re: [advaitin] Re: Regarding Vallalar's Teaching > > Namste kathirasanji, > > " ----- Original Message ----- > From: K Kathirasan NCS > There are many differences between Saiva Siddhanta and > Advaita Vedanta. Saiva Siddhantins consider Advaita Vedanta as one of > the > 'outer schools' for not accepting the Agamas as a pramana. Saiva > Siddhantins accept both the Agamas and the Vedas as pramanas. " > > Agama means tradition. Veda-s is part of tradition, isnt it? Then how > come the distinction? > Please clear my doubt. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of > Atman and Brahman. > Advaitin List Archives available at: > http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ > To Post a message send an email to : advaitin (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com > Messages Archived at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/advaitin/messages > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >

07-14-2003, 01:10 AM	#7
Ram Chandran Posts: n/a	Re: Regarding Vallalar's Teaching Namaste: These comments are in addition to Sri Kathirasan's excellent remarks on this topic. The Saiva Siddhantam was orginated in Tamil Nadu with the emergence of 63 Nayanmars (Shiva worshipping sages). The Bhakti movement (800 AD to 1700 AD) was quite extensive and consists of Shiva, Vishnu and other Ishtadevatas. The Shiva worship using the 28 agamas and Vishnu worship with the adoptation of the (Nalayira DivyaPrabhandams - fourthousands verses praising the glories of Narayana) are quite significant. The agamas and Divyaprabhandams are considered as the 'Tamil Vedas' by the Tamil Bhaktas. The greatest of the devotees of Shiva are called the Naynamars and they are 63 in number and they are the authors to the agamas. The famous ones are Taymanavar, Manickavasagar, Jnanasambandhar, etc. The great devotees of Vishnu are known as the Alwars who are the authors of the prabhandams. Andal, Nammalvar, Periyalwar, Kulasekaraalwar, etc are the most famous among the Alwars. The agamas and prabhandams are respectively verses in praise of Shiva and Vishnu respectively. But these verses come from the hearts of the true devotees who totally surrendered their ego. They are great Tamil literary works greatly cherished by the Tamil scholars. Most of them readily available in the Internet for interested readers. They are all poems written in simple Tamil but with a great depth of devotion and philosophy. ThAyumAnavar postulated the hypothesis of "advaitha SitthAn^tham" which he considered as was more universal and aimed at bridging the gap between VEdhAn^tham and SitthAn^tham. Sage Tayumanavar was a respected scholar in both Sanskrit and Tamil, Tayumanavar was minister to a king in Trichinopoly. When he became god-minded, he went over to Rameswaram, and then from place to place, preaching Saiva Siddhanta philosophy and Siva worship. His songs are full of the divine bliss which he enjoyed in abundance. The songs, on the theme of the Atma craving for the union with the Paramatma, are famous for their simplicity. He is also known for his unceasing emphasis on the unity of all paths to God and of all religions, and in particular, on the unity of Vedanta and Saiva Siddhanta. I strongly recommend the following site to those who want read more on Tayumanavar's works. An example poem is stated below as an example to illustrate the unity of Bhakti and Jnana! Site with Hymns of Thayumanavar: http://www.mountainman.com.au/thayumanavar/ The Site starts with an Introduction with a verse from KathaUpanishads ================================================= The Self is not realized through instruction, nor by intellectual power, nor by much hearing .. It can be reached only by the one whom the Self chooses. To him the Self reveals its form. He who has not renounced evil ways, who is not at peace, who cannot concentrate, whose mind is not composed cannot reach the Self, even by right knowledge. Krishna Yajur Veda, Katha Upanishad 1.2.24-25 =============================== Translation of Taynamanvar's Tamil poem in English: (I have read many of Tayumanavar's works in Tamil and this translation taken from the quoted site is pretty good) What is it, which is Uncircumscribed Effulgence, Perfect Bliss, Divine-Love Filled -- What is it, which willed To contain the countless universes In boundless space And there flourishes as Life of life, - What is it, which stood Transcending thought and word, What is it, which remained As the ever contentious object Of countless faiths claiming, ''This, my God,'' ''This, our God''-- What is it, which exists as Omnipresent, Omnipotent Love-filled and Eternal - What is it, which knows No limits of Night and day - That indeed is what is agreeable to thought, That indeed is what fills all space in silentness. That indeed is what we in meekness worship. --- In advaitin (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, K Kathirasan NCS wrote: > Namaste Ranjeevji, > > Here the Agamas are the Shaiva Agamas which are 28 in number. They are also > given the status of Shruti. Hence the distinction. > > best regards, > K Kathirasan

07-14-2003, 01:24 AM	#8
bhaskar.yr Posts: n/a	Re: Re: Regarding Vallalar's Teaching (Nalayira DivyaPrabhandams - fourthousands verses praising the glories of Narayana) praNAm prabhuji Hare Krishna Can I have the URL for the above prabhuji as one of my friends telling me about divya prabhandham y'day. Hari Hari Hari Bol!!! bhaskar

07-14-2003, 02:08 AM	#9
Ram Chandran Posts: n/a	Re: Regarding Vallalar's Teaching Namaste: URL: http://www.divyaprabandam.com/ regards, Ram Chandran --- In advaitin (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, bhaskar.yr@i... wrote: > > (Nalayira DivyaPrabhandams - fourthousands verses praising the glories of > Narayana) > > praNAm prabhuji > Hare Krishna > > Can I have the URL for the above prabhuji as one of my friends telling me > about divya prabhandham y'day. > > Hari Hari Hari Bol!!! > bhaskar

07-14-2003, 02:56 AM	#10
S Venkatraman Posts: n/a	RE: Re: Regarding Vallalar's Teaching Namaste Kathirasan ji, Forgive my Ignorance. What are Agamas? Many thanks and regards, Venkat - M K Kathirasan NCS wrote: Namaste, ......... Saiva Siddhantins consider Advaita Vedanta as one of the 'outer schools' for not accepting the Agamas as a pramana. Saiva Siddhantins accept both the Agamas and the Vedas as pramanas. best regards, K Kathirasan --------------------------------- Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

07-14-2003, 05:19 AM	#11
Ram Chandran Posts: n/a	Re: Regarding Vallalar's Teaching Namaste: A more complete discussion on Shiva Siddhantam is available at the site with the URL http://siddhanta.shaivam.org/introduc.html The site describes everything that one needs to know about the Siddhantham and details about the associated scriptures - Agamas. A rich collection of Tamil Literatures are available at the URL: http://dcwww.epfl.ch/icp/ICP-2/KK/tamil4.html Most of the Agamas and also nalayira Divyaprabhandam are available in this site for downloading. The list had conducted previous discussions on Shiva Siddhantham and also the Bhakti movement few times before. Here is one reference: http://www.escribe.com/culture/advaitin/m9249.html We also had few postings from Thirumari during February and March 2001. Those interested should check the archives. regards, Ram Chandran --- In advaitin (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, S Venkatraman wrote: > Namaste Kathirasan ji, > > Forgive my Ignorance. What are Agamas? Many thanks and regards, > > Venkat - M >

07-14-2003, 05:23 AM	#12
Ram Chandran Posts: n/a	Re: Regarding Vallalar's Teaching Namaste: Here is an interesting article in praise of Valllar's poems: URL:http://www.levity.com/alchemy/ramaling.html A Single Flame's Light:Reflections on the Poetry of Ramalingar An Introduction to the poet-saint's works. by Layne Little regards, Ram Chandran